Why YSK: If you are a US Resident, don’t lose your Social Security card more than 10 times, or else you might need to respawn 💀
Excerpt from Wikipedia:
In accordance with §7213 of the 9/11 Commission Implementation Act of 2004 and 20 CFR 422.103, the number of replacement Social Security cards per person is generally limited to three per calendar year and ten in a lifetime.
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Social security numbers need to be phased out. Such a ridiculous and outdated system.
It’s important to remember social security numbers were created ONLY to track Social Security benefits. And the Social Security Bureau continually advised everyone to please not use them for a way to teach other things, but no one listened so here we are. The Bureau readily admits it’s not designed to do anything else . https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19697506/#%3A~%3Atext=Abstract%2Cas+a+nearly+universal+identifier.
Yup. It’s ridiculous that it’s snowballed into this precious secret that you have to give to most employers 🤦🏻
But they’re shit even for that. Part of tracking Social Security benefits is tracking taxes paid to Social Security. Unlike other forms of ID, like credit cards, SSNs have no check digits or other means of error prevention. Take a valid SSN. Change on of the digits. That new number is also a valid SSN. Any random 9-digit number can be a valid SSN.
What this means is that all it takes to screw up any form with an SSN on it is to have illegible handwriting on a single one of the digits. You make a single easy error on an employment form, and now your SS taxes are registered under the wrong number.
I’m also skeptical of the Social Security Bureau’s stance on insisting it wasn’t intended as a broad identifier. OF COURSE it was going to be used as an identifier! It’s the only single ID number that the federal government gives out to everyone. OF COURSE it’s going to be used for that. Such a number is of such obvious and great utility that of course it was going to be used for broader purposes. If you create something of such obvious utility, you have an obligation to make sure it’s made well.
It also really strains credulity when Social Security has an entire system dedicated to allowing third parties to verify SSNs. It’s literally called The Social Security Verification Service.
If the Social Security Administration really didn’t want SSNs being used for purposes other than Social Security, then they could have easily prevented them for being used for such purposes. Think about how your SSN works with your bank. You apply for a bank account. They ask you your SSN. You tell them. But how do they know that this information is accurate? Your bank contacts Social Security! The bank has a form you sign that gives permission for them to as the Social Security Bureau to confirm your SSN. And the Social Security office happily obliges.
The Social Security Administration doesn’t just tolerate the use of SSNs for third party uses. It actively facilitates such third party uses of SSNs.
You’re noticing all the things that have happened since the Bureau have up trying to prevent the usage. Remember there was no way to electronically do anything like this for decades after the SSN was created. And the Bureau has no authority to enforce any kind of prevention, but was forced to support it’s usage as a result of the Federal government lack of action to come up with any other system for the last 90 years.
Any random 9-digit number can be a valid SSN.
Not true - there are whole ranges that specifically aren’t in use (mostly specific values for the first three digits that are intentionally not used). Outside those ranges though, yeah, basically any 9 digit number. Add one to the last digit of your SSN and if you were born before 2014 you likely get someone born in the same hospital on the same day.
Why? Because the system itself is arcane and could be done smarter? Or because the government has no business being able to distinguish between people with the same name? I need to understand this before going into a discussion with you.
Or because the government has no business being able to distinguish between people with the same name?
Seems like an objectively terrible approach, considering people with the same name have gotten the same SSN before.
Such an ID would have to be unique.
That would fall into the first category… Also, wtf? How can the same SSN be issued twice?!? It’s a frigging serial number, not a condom at a whore house.
Roughly 1/7 SSNs are issued twice. SSNs are recycled, used multiple times, all that good stuff.
This is why it’s incredibly dangerous when people assume they are unique.
Right? Children should be minted as on the block chain. They’re basically NFTs.
So if I have a child, I can use them as speculative currency?
How much does this NFT go for?
I’d say the sum of their organs and borrowing power of their credit score.
Huh, at a glance, that might actually be a good use for the blockchain.
DNA already has blockchain vibes. We could unravel the … transactions if we understood all the code.
DNA
transactions
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
we should just give everyone a uuid.
I take 1
Just brand a number into their necks, that should make things easier
Why. The hell. Are we supposed to keep sacred a piece of paper that only has 9 precious numbers we can’t choose, but that will permanently identify us, that will deteriorate over time, we’re not supposed to laminate or protect it, and we only have limited replacements!? So dumb…
Murrica
Got rained on when I went to a new job about 10 years ago, had it in my wallet so they could copy it for new hire bs. The colors bled and the blue stained other parts of the card. I never got it replaced but seriously, it isn’t even as durable as a dollar bill.
I’ve got a locked file cabinet with folders for all my important documents like social security card, birth certificate, the degrees I don’t have hanging on the wall, lease contracts, stuff like that. Also a shitton of appliance manuals
That certainly doesn’t sound like the first thing to get utterly torched in a house fire.
I plan on burning my house down fewer than ten times in my life
It’s fucking absurd. It is the flimsiest piece of paper imaginable too (unless it’s been changed recently).
Also, I’m pretty sure you have to pay a fee to replace it, so why the fuck do they limit it?
For decades i’ve had mine in perfect shape. I don’t understand what’s so hard in terms of protecting the original.
If your house is on fire then sure, you need a replacement. If your house catches fire, gets drowned by a biblical flood, has an earthquake swallow it, a volcano erupts underneath it, and has a meteorite strike it - all at different times, all destroying your SS card, you can still get replacements.
10 is enough. If someone is going to lose it more than that they should probably not keep one. It’s not like you need it for anything, you just need the number. A passport or state real ID covers identification.
“Mentally ill people shouldn’t be American citizens anyways.”
Or maybe just “Scatterbrained people…”
Okay, I hear what you’re saying… when was the last time you had to present a physical copy of your SS card and NOTHING else could be used as a substitute?
Any time you get hired at a new job they need to make a copy of your SS card.
This is categorically false. You must not work in HR. My wife does! woooo
What needs to be done is an I-9 form needs to be completed. You need either an item from list A (e.g. something like a passport) or two other items. A birth certificate is a fine replacement for a social security card, if you go with an item from list B + C. https://www.uscis.gov/i-9-central/form-i-9-acceptable-documents
You can use plastic sleeve covers, just nothing permanent like laminate. You can’t scan it with laminate.
Why would you need to scan it? And why wouldn’t you be able to scan a laminated document? The scan might look worse but I doubt it would be that bad.
Avoid paying taxes with this one weird trick
How do we convince sovereign citizens that by claiming, and then burning, all their 10 replacement cards, they get loopholes out of paying federal income taxes?
Give them a federally issued punch card and say after you lose 10 social security cards you get a free sub and chips combo
That’s not the way it works.
Ummm have you ever seen Elon Musk’s social security card??? And how much tax does he pay??? That’s what I thought.
“Never try to argue with an idiot. He’ll drag you down to his level and then win by experience.”
Samuel Clemens
I learned this for my parents because they had to keep getting me new ones. They got my name incorrect 9 times, the social security office. So my parents kept going back and then they warned them I’m close to the limit. My mom and dad we’re pissed because my parents didn’t lose it the office kept making a mistake but it doesn’t matter. Now my mom keeps it so it doesn’t get lost.
so if you want to ruin someones life, just steal their social security card 10 times?
I mean… you could just falsely accuse them of being a terrorist. 🤷♂️
You could just falsely accuse them of being an immigrant.
It’s a legit fear I have going to a protest as a Latino. They say don’t take ID with you to protests. Bruh, I’m taking my US Passport so I don’t get deported to Guantanamo. No guarantee that will work either.
Your SS card has been redeemed, you have 8 protests remaining. Enroll in citizenship plus for $999,999,999.99 and get 100 lifetime SS card replacements, plus a month of Tesla+ on us!
They say don’t take IDs with you to protests.
The point is don’t lose it in the protest so it gets you identified.
But if you are an at-risk minority group, of course you bring it. Better risk getting identified than getting (unconstitutionally) deported.
After that they come round and tattoo it onto your forehead.
I never thought about it until retirement, but the only times I’ve ever been asked to show my Social Security card have been to get jobs. Since retirement I’ve had to show my Medicare card but never my SS.
Is it not the same thing as Canadian SIN?
I don’t understand how can you lose it? It’s just a number. If you forget it, you can login into CRA (Canadian IRS) website and see it there and you can print it if you want for some reason.
Its a number but also on a physical card. The physical card is often used as one form of proving you are who you say you are (like getting a license, passport, etc).
My last job required the actual physical card for some reason 🤔
I’m ordering three every year until I have all 11, then I’m gonna keel over in anxiety.
We should have a new rule: He/She who holds all 11 Social Security cards at age 35, without losing any of them, get a chance to become US president for 8 years, immune to impeachments. Every 8 years, all holders of all 11 Social Security cards between the age of 35 and 43 get locked in a room with all their cards and there will be a fight to see who can steal the most Social Security cards while keeping all their 11.
Whoever lose all their cards have to be punished: They will have to work at the IRS for the rest of their life (well unless they get too old, then they can get to leave). 🙃
Dude I’ve got plastic baggies those cards are going in nature’s pocket
This is definitely better than the electoral college.
I don’t get it. Is a social secuirty thingy the same as what National ID’s are for in other countries?
Yes, but in that typically bonkers American way you also have to keep it secret (so nobody can steal your identity), while at the same time revealing it to every Tom, Dick and Harry every time you have to prove your identity.
If you know their name and their location I believe you can make a very well educated guess at their social security number too
It’s not supposed to be an identifier, but since it’s the only nationally-assigned designation all citizens get it’s treated like one.
Which is stupid. It’s incredibly insecure, vitally important, leaked to every bad actor on the planet already, and unchangeable when it gets compromised (which it has been).
Yes, sort of, but in a stupid way. The number is treated as a unique identifier of a person, but you don’t carry it around since it’s so insecure.
Why not just use the passport number? Or does your passport have the SS number?
Not everyone has a passport and you use SSN to get one. Passports are relatively rare for a lot of people in the US.
Ruh roh… I can’t even remember how many times I’ve had it replaced. 😨
💀
But I have good news for you, I heard that they are dismantling the IRS 😂👌
40+ years, and I’m still on number one. I laminated mine, because I’m a rebel that way.
I keep mine in an old gift card tin along with my draft card, previous ID cards, backup insurance cards, and a couple other things.
Ah fuck I don’t know what happened to my draft card. If they weren’t okay with giving me a desk job but still insist ob drafting me they’d regret it more than I would (innocent fuckups can be expensive, and few people can fuck up to the extent I can).
What’s a draft card?
In the US men (and I think women now?) are required to sign up for the draft at age 18. You’re given a card confirming you’ve signed up.
Oh I see, it’s a consequence of the US not registering all residents. In Germany we don’t have to sign up for the draft, because the local municipality already has a registry with all residents names, addresses and birthdates
What happens if someone gets married a lot and keeps needing a new card with new name?
Now I’m wondering what the maximum number of times someone has been married. Elizabeth Taylor was married 8 times (twice to Burton, so she could have reused that one if she kept it) But if she took her husband’s last name legally (while keeping her stage name) each time, she would have been pushing the limit, and over it if she went back to her maiden name, lost any cards, or didn’t keep old ones… Or if her lawyers were like, don’t change your name legally again after husband 5?
I guess they’re technically not replacement cards but newly issued ones
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-20/chapter-III/part-422/subpart-B/section-422.103
We may allow for reasonable exceptions to these limits on a case-by-case basis in compelling circumstances. We also will consider name changes (i.e., verified legal changes to the first name and/or surname) and changes in alien status which result in a necessary change to a restrictive legend on the SSN card (see paragraph (e)(3) of this section) to be compelling circumstances, and will not include either of these changes when determining the yearly or lifetime limits.
I had to replace mine once. Put it in a safer spot and haven’t had to move it since. I can’t imagine what someone is doing where they’d need to replace a social security card 10 times.
Some people are dumb and carry it in their wallet.
Yeah, but who cares? I mean, really? I haven’t had a physical copy of my social security card in ages, since it disintegrated in my wallet in college. Memorize the number and move on with your day.
Most employers will request the original copy to make their own copies from as part of any onboarding process. Just knowing the numbers isn’t enough.
I wouldn’t say most, most will just ask for your SSN. They absolutely do not need the card for any reason whatsoever. If a job asked me to provide it I just wouldn’t take that job lol.
Editing comment for clarity.
All employers in the US need proof of two things: proof of identity, and proof of employment eligibility. A passport takes care of both.
But most people in my experience provide a state ID/driver’s license (identity), and either a social security card or birth certificate (employement.)
So, you can be on your high horse all you want, but you’re gonna provide the documents above if you want to work legally.
The employer can view a social security card or birth certificate, but they DO NOT need to retain a copy of it. And you can provide a number of documents in place of a social security card. It is absolutely not legal to require a social security card for work eligibility, it’s simply one of the options an employee may present. And if presented in person, they are not obligated to retain a copy of it.
I have worked many jobs legally in the U.S, several of which required extensive background checking and identity verification. Never once have I been required to present a social security card. They can only ask for the number itself, if they’re using E-Verify.
We’re splitting hairs here. It is a legal requirement to provide work elibility. If you provide a passport, or if you provide an ID and birth certificate, that sufficies. But many people choose ID and social security card. And yes, employers keep copies of work eligibility on file.
So I guess my question is, is your objection really to the act of asking for a lightweight cardboard card?
Then I would suggest you not try to split hairs. It is not a legal requirement to provide an employer with your social security card, and they do not need to keep copies of any of your identifying documents on file. These two preceding statements are objectively and inarguably true. Any argument of “Well you can always CHOOSE to provide them” is neither here nor there. I can choose to provide my social security card to a crackhead on the street corner, but that has nothing to do with legal requirements either.
I have never provided a social security card to an employer and can never be made to. This will never result in an inability for me to work legally, nor anybody else in this country lol.
I guess my confusion comes from why you are so adamantly against specifically providing the social security card, when providing proof of employment eligibility is a legal requirement. Clearly, you have no problem providing employment eligibility, why do you have such strong feelings about providing the social security card specifically?
And while agree, the fact that other documents can be provided to prove employment eligibility means that technically providing the SS card isn’t required, I’d caution you against saying “never” in our current political environment.
When I onboard people, I’m required to see proof of identity and proof of authorization to work in the US, as well as make copies for INS audit purposes. A passport covers both of those requirements, but for people that do not have a passport, a DL and a social security card are the most common, followed by a DL and birth certificate. One is a photo ID from an official source, the other shows either US citizenship or something saying you’re allowed to work as a non citizen (aka a green card).
You’re required to see proof of identity and authorization to work, however you are NOT required to see the social security card specifically, nor are you legally allowed to require it of your new employees. And even if they do bring their social security card for you to verify, you are NOT required to make your own copy of it unless you’re reviewing it remotely.
It sounds like some employers/HR outfits are just grossly misinformed then. The I9 form directions are pretty clear in what is required and/or acceptable, and this documentation is only required for I9 purposes, other than a DL for a driving related job. Companies are not necessarily required to have copies of the I9 identity documents used on file, but it is good practice in case of an audit, which is why most companies do it (a CYA basically). In theory, if someone reports a company because they suspect they’re employing people unauthorized to work in the US, providing copies of the documents you used for the I9 verification shows that your did your due diligence and they’re more likely to leave you alone.
Pretty much every company I ever worked for took a copy of my passport, and I see no harm in that as long as their storage is reasonably secure.
Yes, any employer/HR outfits that tell you that they require your social security card are grossly misinformed, as that would not be legal.
I’m going to trust the person that does this for a living over your wild claims that asking for a SS card (something literally every job that I’ve had -and I’ve had a lot- required) is illegal.
