Nice write-up by Jeff.
Things are getting out of hand. It’s time for a change. Only buy equipment with local access.
That dishwasher runs perfectly fine without connecting to an app. Been using it that way for half a year.
People are so obsessed for nonsense features. Just set normal mode, auto air, start. Done. You know when it finished because the red light shining on the floor turns off, it beeps at you, and auto air opens the door so it can dry faster.
Guess what? You just had a machine wash dishes for you and you didn’t even hear it running the whole time.
Check the trash filter occasionally, which is a physical part you can pull out from the bottom and wash in the sink. Clean the gaskets occasionally to keep a clean seal like any dishwasher.
I will probably open it up at some point and see if I can damage/remove the radio so it can’t ever connect to anything.
It’s a dishwasher, it doesn’t have to massage your plates’ backs. Nothingburger rant.
I don’t think we should let vendors get away with this stuff.
Yes returning it is a huge hassle. But if you’re not returning it you still bought their product, supported them financially and that product line. Even if they see you not activating cloud features in numbers, others do and they can make very favorable calculations.
The single most effective way to not let them get away with it is returning it. As an unacceptable product.
Things like these are getting ridiculous and the most unreasonable of it all is that most people do not consider this as predatory and invasive behaviour from manufacturers.
I like my appliances dumb. Don’t try to sell me a smart TV, a smart fridge or a smart anything. It does not need to connect to the internet. It needs to do one specific task and one only. I don’t need my fridge to order groceries.
exactly, OP shouldn’t have bought it to begin with.
It’s a common occurence. People should know by now.
I actually really like my Bosch dishwasher + home connect. You can hook it up with home assistant, and use that to run the dishwasher when solar is working.
Local access would be nice, but homeconnect isnt that bad, and has been improving.
The point here is:
- not all functionality is available as-is. You need to install a cloud connected app.
- a cloud connection is not per se one direction. It is more than possible, the people operating this cloud (for Bosch) have the means (read: api) to connect back into your network via the hardware.
You might take a good look at this work.
As long as the firmware of the dishwasher isn’t audited by third parties (or even better: open source), who knows what it is able to do in your network?
And all of this is not necessary, before the cloud, dishwashers worked fine too.
The one way issue is very easily solved (isolated network), and on my model at least, all functionality is available. The app gives more, but everything I need is available on the buttons if I need it.
This is pathetic.
I’m glad you enjoy your home connect. A dishwasher shouldn’t need an internet connection to function. Period. Full stop.
“Just put it on an isolated network” is ridiculous advice, when there shouldn’t even be a need.
Even if you assume there are no vulnerabilities to find, even if you assume their administrators are never evil, the only reason to require cloud service is to invade my privacy and collect data.
That’s it. They’re selling your data. Maybe you are fine with that. We are not.
No need for name calling.
My dishwasher is completely fine without the cloud. Period. Full stop.
There is no need to put it on the network, but if you want to, and are paranoid, you can connect it to an isolated network. If you dont want to, dont, and the dishwasher will work.
There are valid use cases for the networking, beyond data collection, if you dont like it, dont use it. I do like it, and I’d rather support companies that do provide first party homeassistant support.
No one called you any names. They said your advice is ridiculous, but that’s not name calling. That’s critiquing.
They’re not using your dishwasher for your needs, they’re using their dishwasher for their needs. They likely don’t overlap. Different models have different feature sets. One can say that they should have done more research into the home networking requirements for super basic features (as heavily explained in the article that we’re all commenting on, and you seem to have completely ignored), but frankly that’s beside the point. The baseline should not be well below par. The baseline should not be “download our potential spyware that also doesn’t necessarily work very well with your system just so you can use basic features”.
I’m glad you like smart features. I think people should have that kind of flexibility and choice in their home environment. The problem here is that when using this particular appliance, they don’t have that choice. That is a problem. Even if, when you use your appliance, you don’t have that issue, they do. Because they are not you, and do not have the exact same use case that you do.
I still think its unnecessarily rude to call someone’s opinion/experience “pathetic”.
The rest, I absolutely agree with. Its not a Bosch problem, its that specific model of dishwasher for that specific user problem. If I were in their situation, I would return the dishwasher.
My dishwasher is completely fine without the cloud. Period. Full stop.
OP reports loss of functionality. Functions, that are, quite frankly standard features on all not-IoT machines. Functionality which, frankly, you paid for, and which in no way actually require homecontrol to use.
There is no need to put it on the network, but if you want to, and are paranoid, you can connect it to an isolated network. If you dont want to, dont, and the dishwasher will work.
only if you find it acceptable to not have full functionality. “you can put it on an isolated network”… is very much like “let them eat cake.”
Particularly if you consider the trend to force this in all sorts of things- ranging from toasters, refridgerators, ovens, stovetops, coffee makers, etc. Inorder to adequately protect mimizie the risks associated with these devices, you’d have to have a dedicated network for each one.
and yes, the reason they’re forcing you to use the home control app to get these features is to intrude into your privacy.
Notifications aside, none of the functions it enables require internet access, or even network access. There’s exactly zero reason to put it on the network. And as for notifications, I don’t know anyone that’s going to rush home or stop what they’re doing to put dishes away the moment the machine is finished cleaning them. is it possible you’re an exception to that? sure. I guess. but the vast majority of people- in my experience- won’t be finding anything that actually requires internet for to be all that useful.
Which- in case there was any confusion- is why they shut off functions people use all the time. To force people to use their app. Which, if they weren’t some how making money off that app, ask yourself why they’d care?
They’re making money off the app. which suggests they’re selling something they get from the app. (I suppose they could be using your IoT devices to mine crypto when you’re not using it… but that’s got it’s own issues.)
