Why not put that on the sign then instead of some vague, unrelated bollocks that doesn’t justify the removal? If that’s the case then I feel the wording on the sign is borderline dishonest.

100%
The difference is I would leave the door open for them to come back to reason, maybe even give them the benefit of the doubt. But the people purposely manipulating then are, I think, beyond forgiveness.

You’re 100% entitled (and right) to feel that way. But there are a lot of lies these people have been fed, often from birth, about for example white supremacy etc. that only education can really erase. Education is withheld by the same liars that profit from the hatred they whip up.
Now I’m not advocating for the softly, softly approach with them, I’m all for punching Nazis, and it’s ultimately up to the individual what to believe. But these drones aren’t the right target, it’s the monsters that made them that way and hide behind them, the people in power advocating for e.g. religion and ethnonationalism to increase their power and profits. They are the root cause. And their first victims are these ignorant sheep forming a human shield around them. If I were to explain how much contempt I have for those people this would be a massive text wall that probably breaks Lemmy TOS.

James O’Brien isn’t my favourite talking head, but I do like his idea of having contempt for the conmen and compassion for the conned. These people have swallowed a lot of big lies and the fault is with the liars.

Its frustrating that most people seem to just see that she was present at 20 cases and terminate their thinking at that. To me, that’s not enough proof to convict. I wonder, for example, how many infants died at places she worked, where she wasn’t present? An analysis by someone with all the numbers, of the probability of this happening, would be really crucial, I think. Are there any other nurses in the UK who have been on shift for a similar number of infant deaths in a similar timespan? Should we try them for murder too?

I’m not sure about this because I’m too busy to dig into it properly and the information isn’t available readily, but I think the injection of insulin is provable, i.e. you can tell post mortem that an insulin injection was given, which is murder

Random chance means that every few years, somewhere in the world, some medical professional will be present at a series of unusual deaths. They end up in prison even though there’s no other evidence.

This seems totally plausible, but I’ve never heard of it happening I don’t think. Do you have any cases you can point out? I’m having trouble finding a decent search term.

I’m trying to find out what the actual evidence against Letby was.

So am I, now, after reading your comment. I found this which gives the list:

• Her ‘presence’ around the time of each collapse (how many infant deaths happened during her employment for which she was NOT present?)
• she stole documents from the hospital, including a small number of documents with the names of babies she killed (probably a crime in itself, but fewer than 9% of the documents she had taken related to the babies in any way, so this could well be a bad habit)
• The post-it note (written after arrest, could well be nothing more than the frantic thoughts of someone in terror)
• The fact that it’s extremely difficult to prove she injected air (seems to work both ways)

So far, I’m not convinced. None of that evidence seems solid enough. Its worrying, not just because an innocent person may have just lost everything, but also because if there’s a systemic failure then creating a scapegoat is a surefire way to ensure it continues to happen.

That said, I know only what’s been reported, I wasn’t there and I don’t know everything. I want to believe the justice system is working properly and the people in full possession of the facts (judge, jury, barristers) made the right decision. I’m a little bit less inclined that way at the moment after hearing about the recent exoneration of Andrew Malkinson.

Nope. The ability to change your thinking on a topic as emotive as this is rare in my experience, and a sign of intelligence in my opinion. As is realising you’re stupid. The vast majority of true idiots don’t.

Well that is the very pinnacle of discourse my friend. Thank you very much for being intelligent enough to do it and brave enough to say it. I like to think I do the same when I encounter a sound argument. Are you a scientist by any chance?

Edit to add:

the elderly professor took the American by the hand and said — with passion — ‘My dear fellow, I wish to thank you. I have been wrong these fifteen years. We clapped our hands red.

~Richard Dawkins

What opinion exactly? You’ve only stated that you agree with someone else’s.
If you think that subjecting prisoners of certain crimes to inhumane conditions is a good idea, then it’s a simple refutation: the justice system is not perfect and people who are innocent WILL be subjected to that treatment on occasion, which is unacceptable - a similar argument to the one against capital punishment.
If you want to get into a debate on rehabilitation vs. punishment then that’s another matter.

I’m going to disagree with you. What else would you expect? I could also challenge you to think carefully about the consequences that this kind of policy would have, but I have only a smidgen of hope that you actually would.

I mean…the spelling error is gone, but the comment is still FAR from fixed.

This was in the UK, but yes we have similar problems here. A half-privatised health system.

Exactly right. We need to root out how this happened if we want to stop it happening again. That would probably include an honest long look at the NHS in general and whatever went on in her mind in particular. It’s never going to be as simple as “this woman’s a monster”. We need to know what impulses she felt and what justifications she told herself, knowing it was the worst kind of wrong. And how did she get into a position where it was possible. The families deserve answers and we all need to know it can’t happen again.

Torture is so so great!!! I love how you’re putting your sickness out there. You’re really leaning into it.

I’m sorry I have you the impression that I gave a shit what you thought of my opinion on the death penalty. Let me be more clear: I Do Not Give A Shit About What You Think.

Am I clear enough?

Ok…Then why are you posting your opinion on a public forum?
What I think isn’t that important. Do you have anything of any substance to say about what I have written?
Your support for the death penalty is wrong morally, and incorrect rationally. That’s not my opinion, it’s just counting.

You should be. We might still be wrong about her. Just a few weeks ago it was found that a guy in the UK was convicted and sentenced and served 20 years for a horrific crime he did not commit.
If we had the death sentence here, he would be dead now.