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Google recently open sourced Pebble and today, Repebble has put some of the watches up for preorder.
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Genuinely considering it as I love e ink, lightweight, long battery life, and open source
I understand that the watch operating system is open source. However, it seems that the watch will connect to a companion smartphone app. Do you know if the app is a requirement and/or if the app will be open source?
Yeah the mobile app is open source too https://github.com/pebble-dev/mobile-app
Does it spy on us?
The hand-wavy answer is: go check the code and find out, however that’s not accessible to everyone.
The helpful answer is: The code is out there, and the launch date is far enough away that those who do understand it enough to make that distinction should have the time to do so before it ships, so time will tell.
The Rebble folks probably are the closest to knowing, given they’ve been hacking on the current app for the past several years.
My guess is probably not. The target audience probably wouldn’t be cool with it.
Also, there are 3rd party watchfaces and apps that will be available, so that code will need to be evaluated too. So, it’s more complicated than a single yes or no.
Gadgetbridge is compatible with Pebble devices
IIRC, it has a reflective LCD, not epaper display.
Core 2 Duo
- 1.2" black/white e-paper screen
Core Time 2
- 1.5" 64 color e-paper screen
Am I missing something?
The watch featured a 32-millimetre (1.26 in) 144 × 168 pixel black and white memory LCD using an ultra low-power “transflective LCD”
The problem is that e-paper is a category of displays, abnd some companies label reflective LCDs as “e-paper”. Which is subjective (and I personally heavily disagree with that categorization, cause then LCD clocks and Gameboys have “e-paper” displays, too).
But in the comment I responded to it was said Pebble has “eink” display, which is categorically wrong, as that is a very specific proprietary technology, which is e-paper in traditional sense, like the ones in Kindles.
I believe these are sharp’s memory in pixel lcds. They’re much lower power than something like the game boy screen as each pixel retains its state and doesn’t need to be refreshed from the controller constantly. I actually like these little screens quite a lot. Worse pixel density and don’t look as good as e-ink when static, but still really Low power and can refresh way faster and smoother when needed.
Your response says, “not epaper” which is categorically wrong. I assume you meant to say “eink”
As I mentioned earlier, whether a screen type is considered e-paper is subjective. And in my opinion, reflective LCD isn’t a type of e-paper. You may disagree, but it’s not “categorically” wrong.
Where exactly is that quote from? I had a look through the product page(s) and could only find e-paper being mentioned…
Quote is from Wikipedia. You can see it’s the case for both models here:
Besides, I own a Pebble Time watch and can tell you, it doesn’t perform like a typical e-paper. It has the bad viewing angles of LCD and screen goes blank when power is lost.
That quote is on under features on the article for the original Pebble, right? Might be that the Pebble 2 used a different screen; I can’t really find info on that though.
Epaper and eink are different. Eink consumes no power when idle, and epaper consumes almost no power.
Yet they are also the same - E Ink is an e-paper display.
Electronic paper is a category for any low energy display tech that looks kinda like paper, E Ink is a very specific technology from E Ink Corporation.
Oh that seems to be new since the original pebble
I still can’t believe that no one else has made a smart watch with physical buttons and low energy use that has surpassed the pebble after all this time. I’m still cautious that this venture will pan out, but honestly there really hasn’t been a smart watch released that matches my use case. Sleep tracking makes no sense if I have to charge the watch daily, as I’d probably charge it over night. Media control with screen buttons is awful. Fossil came close with their hybrid smart watch, but the layout of the media controls made no sense and couldn’t easily be used without looking at the watch. Just let me check my calendar and texts and skip through ads in podcasts, and last over a week of battery and you will have my money.
Don’t love the closed-in ecosystem but Garmin watches with MIP display do almost all you just said.
- Touch screen + also Buttons for 100% touch-free interaction
- Battery life of around 3 to 4 weeks (depending on what you are doing)… more with the Solar models
- Media control is there, but don’t really use that
Podcast ad skipping sadly not a thing.
Price might be an issue though. The top end models with all the whistles come at a smartphone flagship price point.
I have a Vivoactive 4 that I picked up used from Facebook a couple of months back. It’s a few years old now, and the regular LCD screen looks pretty janky once you’ve got used to OLED. But it cost me £50, works perfectly well with GrapheneOS, and the battery still lasts a week.
It’s left me pondering upgrading it to a new one with an OLED screen.
To offer a counter point: I’ve owned 3 different VivoActive 3 Music watches for about 2 years each. All of them had the screen stop working. Could be my bad luck, but I wasn’t super rough with them (never wore them in water)
Honestly daily charging isn’t the worst I just usually charge my watch when I’m in the shower and getting ready in the morning pop it back on when I’m done and I’m good to go.
Garmin watches come close?
I’m still very confused about why we needed PebbleOS for this. It’s been like 10 years and no one could come up with any comparable software? They whipped up the hardware design in a few months.
From what I’ve read from Eric since this relaunch was announced, he just wants a new pebble and so do some of the userbase. This project isn’t really intended as a viable, polished product. Rather it’s a niche thing made for a Core audience of nerds.
Disclaimer: I’m one of the nerds this is intended for. I instantly pre-ordered a watch because it’s a pebble. I7
he just wants a new pebble
I’m sure that’s what he wants you to believe.
Probably. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I don’t usually make dumb decisions with money, but when there’s a potential pebble involved you could sell me an idea of one and I’d go for it. Especially after all this time.
What’s the huge thing about it? I don’t know nothing about the product and an curious as to why somebody would be that hyped about it.
It’s just a smartwatch that does some basic things right. The software is simple, it has buttons for control, it only does the very basics of smartwatching. There are no bells and whistles.
Most of all, to me, it just feels right. It always did. Other smartwatches I’ve had were all too demanding of my attention.
It might be one of those “you had to have been there” moments. It’s 2014, Obama was reelected, Uptown Funk was on the radio (there used to be this thing called FM radio), and there you are - a happy young thing reading texts on your watch in broad daylight, right the middle of a conversation. You felt like a cucumber straight from the freezer.
I know all that sounds slightly laughable now, but there is an undeniable yearning for that zeitgeist compared to where we ended up.
Fair enough. I feel the compulsion myself.
I had a Pebble Time Steel and it was the best watch I’ve ever head. I want another Pebble. So does Eric. So I gave him money to make me one.
Yeah, I get that. My question is why Eric (or literally anyone else) didn’t just re-make the Pebble (or similar) under a different name at any time in the last 10 years? Why did they wait for the OS to be open sourced instead of just making a new one?
Methinks you underestimate the complexity.
And all the other watch makers I’ve looked at are not doing, or even considering, what Pebble did.
Methinks you underestimate the complexity.
Maybe I do. But there are dozens of Chinese no-name companies who developed entire smartwatch ecosystems.
Some reasons:
- It’s a lot of work no one wants to do given there are half-decent proprietary alternatives
- Eric wasn’t sitting twiddling his thumbs
- The corporate landscape wasn’t nearly as hostile to users until the last few years
Making a new OS isn’t easy as others have said, but it’s also helpful that Pebble OS has a bit of a following. There are still people who are very vocal about how much they love/loved their pebble watches. Making a new OS that’s inspired by PebbleOS would be met with more skepticism than just releasing a watch with an OS that people already know that they like.
Assuming that he made no major changes to the software, pebble fans almost already know what they’ll be getting out of this product. You couldn’t say the same for a watch with a new OS.
Really? I came across you again. Still acting in bad faith, huh? The founder Eric likes his Pebble watches, and wants to make it again. What is with you and your lack of understanding? How hard is that to believe?
Okay so now you’re not only acting in bad faith but following me around to harass me. You’ve been blocked. Goodbye.
I randomly came across you and saw the tag I left you. Lol
PebbleOS was awesome, though. Such a well thought out system for end-users, and it already has tons of apps. Developing for it (in C!) is also super easy because it has an amazing SDK.
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Because good software is hard. The PebbleOS is a gem, and no, no one could in 9 years.
It has the entire ecosystem of apps.
They didn’t need it, it was just the tipping point
Eh. I prefer the PineTime watch. It was like 25€+shipping and customs and it does everything I need, is fully open-source – it displays weather info, time, date, heart rate (although not very well), and has timer, stopper, etc.
I’ve pre-ordered the Core Time 2.
Pre-orders are something I never usually do, but given this is essentially just an improved version of an existing product, as opposed to a Kickstarter, I feel more confident. And I can cancel the preorder at any time (plus I’ll see reviews of the cheaper model before the Core Time 2 ships).
The price made me wince, though. It’s very expensive for the functionality. Technically cheaper than the original watches adjusted for inflation, but that ignores the current-day smartwatch market. Still, I loved the Pebble, so I think it’s worth it.
Torn between this and a bangle.js 2, if I need a smarwatch at all
Having used both, personally I highly preferred the Pebble over the Bangle JS.
Pebble was solid software, good designs and it all just worked simply and did what I needed. I also thought the Pebble Time Round was near perfect in design and execution. I’m not a fan of the geeky look of the normal pebble and bangle watches (or the apple watch look).
The Bangle was fun to dev for, and I love that it exists, but it all felt like a dev project. Not a finished product. Granted it was early on in the project so I’m sure it’s in a better place now.
They both have similar capabilities. I say go with whichever you think is going to fit what you need a smartwatch to do.
Is there any company that let’s you export your health tracking data in a non proprietary format and doesn’t charge you a monthly subscription to use your smartwatch’s health tracking features?
Withings
Garmin allows you to export data to a csv file. I’m not sure if it’s all data because I haven’t used it, but I know it’s simple.
That’s good to know, I liked the MIP display watches I saw from Garmin, but the only model with that display seems to be their most expensive watch
I think the forerunner 55 is MIP. It’s not a smart watch and it’s their base level running watch. I had one before I upgraded to the 265 and I loved it. Off the top of my head, I know it gives you sleep data, heart rate, data, stress level data, a HRV, VO2 max. Max. Maybe some other things. Along with the standard steps and Miles moved or kilometers moved.
Seems like it can be connected to your phone to see notifications and control music using the Garmin app, do I guess it’s smart enough for me, that plus health monitoring and long battery life are all I need, and it’s more affordable than other smartwatch’s as well. Does Garmin charge a monthly subscription to use the health monitoring? And does it allow you to export the health data?
The 255 is also MIP and is basically the same as the one I have (265). The 265 swapped out the display for an amoled display.
Fuck I want that so bad.
If only there was a company out there that did it. Alas…
Pebble sounds cool but i really dont like square watches(except the retro casios and gshocks) and now its owned by google so thats shit as well.
Google dumped the Pebble OS code on GitHub when this whole “rePebble” thing (not Rebble) started. Now there’s a new phone app coming out soon (or out now, depending on your platform and abilities) that handles old and new Pebbles and modern phone platforms.
None of this is from Google.
…and now its owned by google so thats shit as well.
Google acquired it back in 2021, this move to open source it is a good thing.
I think Google just owns the software because the product page for these watches say the guy invested his own money to get these produced.
No NFC ??? Whyyyyyyyyyy
Where’s my round?
How’s navigation with Pebbles? If I start bike navigation in Google Maps on my phone, can I get turn-by-turn directions on the watch, and does it not suck?
There was/is a companion app called PebbleNav/NavMe that worked okay-ish, as long as you could survive with “Turn left in 100 metres to x street” type instructions with no map view (not really something you can do with 144x168 pixels).
can it play tetris
Does this interface with your phone at all? Tried skimming thru their website but the fact it doesn’t list Bluetooth in the specs leaves me confused why you’d spend this much money on a quasi-smartwatch that doesn’t have that capability.
Yes! The best thing about Pebbles (IMHO) is how they handle notifications. In the specs, they list Nordic nRF52840 BLE chip (BLE stands for Bluetooth Low Energy)
It says they’re able to extend the battery life from 7 days to a month due to how efficient the new Bluetooth chips are.
You must have skimmed pretty fast.
I did indeed skim pretty fast, but it doesn’t say that, it just says from 7 days to 30:
Battery life: I’m really excited that battery life will be increased from 7 days to 1 month! This is due to massive improvements in Bluetooth chip power efficiency over the last 10 years.
It’s further down the page.
It’s damn near the very bottom lol, so I forgive myself for missing that. When I skim something for a product, I’m looking at the tech specs/BLUF message, not digging thru the entire page of text. Anyway, glad it’s all sorted out.
[…] Battery life: I’m really excited that battery life will be increased from 7 days to 1 month! This is due to massive improvements in Bluetooth chip power efficiency over the last 10 years. […]
Source: https://ericmigi.com/blog/introducing-two-new-pebbleos-watches
It absolutely does, on Android at least. On iOS, given Apple’s restrictions, the whole situation is a bit more complicated:
https://ericmigi.com/blog/apple-restricts-pebble-from-being-awesome-with-iphones
Follow-up question - is this the watch I’ve been looking for that doesn’t spy on me and require a cl of us account to use?
Made another post but it was removed for…reasons. Migi says you shouldn’t expect your Pebble to last >5 years.
It reads to me like he’s saying that if you expect 5+ years without maintenance if it’s more than $100, you should look at a different product.
The top comments are someone saying that after five years they needed to repair it due to battery failure, and the founder saying the repair process is the same.Five years is longer than the average lifespan of a liIon battery. Expecting to be able to skip repairs that long is unreasonable for a $150 product.
It reads like the founder actually giving realistic expectations. A $150 product will likely need repairs to last longer than five years, and you’ll be disappointed if you expect otherwise.
Can you point to a similar product that costs about as much that fits your criteria?
It doesn’t read to me like you shouldn’t have to replace the battery, it reads to me like he’s saying don’t expect the device itself to last >5 years.
How does that read to you like him saying it’s not replaceable?
Have you tried reading the rest of the comments?
Sure have!
He told someone not to buy it if they expect more than five years without repairs. That person seemed to think spending more than $100 should get them a product that lasts a lifetime, and was irritated the founder said he thought it was pretty good that a piece of low cost consumer electronics made it five years before needing repairs.
What part of that says to you that it’s not reparable or won’t last five years?
The comment that Eric replied to saying “please don’t buy this” mentioned nothing about repairs. It was entirely about overall longevity of the device.
In the context of him saying the device is repairable, the top comment talking about repairing it, and the comment in question replying to that thread, it seems a bit weird to say “he didn’t say it in this comment, so the comments where he says it’s repairable don’t count”.
I backed the original pebble on kickstarter and it’s what got me into smart watches. Happy they’re coming back and that they’re open source.
Edit: if I’m remembering correctly wasn’t there some server that the original pebble used that shut done that ended up knee-capping it? Wonder if there’s anything server-side being used here that could do the same.
I recently did out my old 401B after the screen fell off my Galaxy Active2. It charged right up and still lasts about a week.
Finding a new band was a PITA because of the weird segmented hinge bit but one person was selling diver bands for it on Amazon (I think it was Amazon)… Really not bad for a watch from a decade ago.
Pebble still works thanks to the Rebble project. Everything else is free, but the dictation and weather services require a monthly $3 subscription to use as those are the parts that have rather hefty API call costs.
Though the experience is miserable on iOS. That’s entirely all thanks to Apple.
What makes it miserable on iOS?
The Pebble app was removed from the App store, so you have to manually sideload it every 7 days.
And:
Here are the things that are harder or impossible for 3rd party smartwatches (ie non Apple Watches) to do on iPhone:
- There’s no way for a smartwatch to send text messages or iMessages.
- You can’t reply to notifications or take ‘actions’ like marking something as done.
- It’s very difficult to enable other iOS apps to work with Pebble. Basically iOS does not have the concept of ‘interprocess communication’(IPC) like on Android. What we did before was publish an SDK that other apps (like Strava) could integrate to make their own BLE connection to Pebble. It was a clunky quasi-solution that other apps didn’t like, because it was hard to test (among other things)
- If you (accidentally) close our iOS app, then your watch can’t talk to app or internet
- Impossible for watch to detect if you are using your phone, so your watch will buzz and display a notification even if you are staring at your iPhone
- You can’t easily side load apps onto an iPhone. That means we have to publish the app on the iPhone appstore. This is a gigantic pain because Apple. Every update comes with the risk that a random app reviewer could make up some BS excuse and block the update.
- Because of iOS Appstore rules, it would be hard for us to enable 3rd party watchface/app developers to charge for their work (ie we can’t easily make an appstore within our app)
- Getting a Javascript engine to run in PebbleOS forced us to go through many hoops due to iOS — creating a compiler inside the Pebble iPhone app that in itself needed to be written in (cross-compiled to) JS to work with Apple’s restriction on downloadable code can only be JS
- As a Pebble watch/app developer, using the iOS app as relay to the watch sucks since the “developer mode” terminates every few minutes https://ericmigi.com/blog/apple-restricts-pebble-from-being-awesome-with-iphones
