Recently, our daughter (17 in June) told my wife and me that she has started dating not 1, but 2 guys. No introductions needed since we already know them; they’ve been close friends of hers for quite some time now. Daughter put it as: why do I have to choose if I like them both and they don’t mind sharing?
I just don’t like it.
Golden rule for children near adult age: advise and inform not more. Her body her choice and all that, but especially her right to choose. So if you overstep she will just keep doing what she wants, but stop taking to you about it. Keep an eye open if she is happy and healthy and offer her advice whenever you can.
It’s probably just experimenting at that age so chill and show her she can trust you.
Yeah this is polyamory which is normal in that people do it.
Polyamory isn’t the norm, so by definition it isn’t normal. That said, as long as everything is consensual, it’s their choice.
It’s as normal as dyeing your hair blue. It’s not the go-to for everybody, but if you go to the supermarket it’s right there on the shelf with all the other options.
It’s definitely not as normal as dying your hair blue if were comparing percents of population. It’s a lot more rare.
While I fully support the right for consenting adults to express love however they want, I can’t help but feel this dynamic is incredibly unhealthy and I worry about the kids.
I seriously doubt it’s “normal” for these types of relationships to be successful. The power dynamic is just so off. Humans are jealous creatures.
Maybe that’s my biases, I don’t actually know, but if i saw successful polyamoric couples walking around anywhere close to the rate i see blue haired people that would go a long way to changing my mind.
Results show that 1 out of 6 people (16.8%) desire to engage in polyamory, and 1 out of 9 people (10.7%) have engaged in polyamory at some point during their life. Approximately 1 out of 15 people (6.5%) reported that they knew someone who has been or is currently engaged in polyamory.
Seems like it’s fairly common.
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.619640/full
1 out of 9 people (10.7%) have engaged in polyamory at some point during their life
Sorry, is that strictly consenting polyamorous relationships?
People who cheat on their partners aren’t being thrown in there are they?
If not, I should eat my hat, that’s a way larger number than I could have imagined.
Edit: yes it appears that they’re talking about consensual non monogamy. That’s really interesting it really is more normal than I thought.
It is unfortunate that this doesn’t shed light on the success of those relationships and only whether or not they happen.
I would still suspect they’re less healthy and more complex to navigate on average compared to monogamy but we have no way to make a claim on that one way or the other it seems.
Way larger than I imagined, too. And yeah, I would also suspect they’re pretty messy and occassionally traumatic. But so are monogamous relationships.
I wouldn’t worry about eating your hat here. And also, I’m not digging the downvotes you’ve been catching. I think you presented a pretty reasonable take based on your own experience. That’s not the same experience everyone has, but that’s kinda the whole point of this thread, isn’t it?
but if i saw successful polyamoric couples walking
… How would you possibly know they are poly aside from blatantly seeing them make out in front of you?
Which wouldn’t even be how many poly relationships work, BTW.
I don’t know about you, but it’s pretty obvious when you meet someone who is poly.
… How would you possibly know they are poly aside from blatantly seeing them make out in front of you?
They could tell me? Lol. Do you have small talk with your acquaintances?
Of all my friends, family and acquaintances I have one non binary friend who is polyamorous but not currently in a poly relationship and one friend who is not poly but has an open relationship.
Compared to people I know who have dyed their hair blue, they do not seem as statistically frequent.
If you have a study on population size or something you could easily change my mind.
This is all built on the bias of personal anecdotes because I’m not very familiar with polyamory because I basically never hear of it being tried except online.
If it’s more common than I suggest please enlighten me.
I’d guess it’s under 0.5 percent of relationships just completely out of my ass to give you a target to disprove and shoot down if I’m that blatantly wrong.
They could tell me? Lol. Do you have small talk with your acquaintances?
Do you tell everyone everything about your lives? Do you not know anyone who prefers privacy?
Compared to people I know who have dyed their hair blue, they do not seem as statistically frequent.
Wow, something you can physically see is obvious compared to something you have to be told about! I’m shocked. Shocked, I say. To the core.
There have been studies on poly relationships BTW.
The Kinsey Institute reported (going off memory here) that about 10% of Americans have been in poly relationships, and about 15-20% are interested, with about 5% actively in a poly relationship.
YouGov did a survey and found about 1/3rd were interested in some form of non-monogamy.
A study in Canada came up with similar numbers to the Kinsey Institute, and a different one found a much higher interest in non-monagamy than in the US.
There are definitely way more than you think, since you’re basing it solely on people you know being interested in telling you about it.
By what definition of “normal”? Polygamy is a central part of several religions for instance. And if we look at nature in general, non-monogamous breeding across all species is the most common.
Normal and common doesn’t really necessarily mean the same thing to everyone. Normal has more values attached sometimes. Normal sometimes carries some sense of a moral attachment.
Polyamory is not something all humans think is acceptable, for themselves or others. Some animal species also don’t mate with more than one other individual, even if they would have time and opportunity to do so. Humans are a mix here, within our species.
I think most people don’t have multiple partners at once. That’s probably the most common thing. But what’s considered “normal” depends on the community and culture.
There’s kind of my point. It is a societal construct, one largely tied to religion and thus easily mapped to religious expansion across the globe.
“Normal” for things like this is meaningless, because it is entirely based in arbitrary beliefs, not anything inherent in being human. It is based entirely on fake limits we’ve imposed on ourselves as a culture, nothing more.
This is really only “abnormal” in a traditional, Christianity-based modern societal culture, and that’s nowhere near the entire world.
I don’t think it’s really helpful to look at other species.
We are the only species that has sex for pleasure and uses contraceptives.
I think the fact you have to point out that we’re the only species that has developed drugs, in order to exclude every other species kind of proves it though.
all species
False:
“Some avians such as swans, bald eagles, California condors, and the Atlantic Puffin are not only monogamous, but also form lifelong pair bonds.” - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair_bond
Let’s get that full quoted sentence instead of the two worda out of context that let you post the link you wanted.
And if we look at nature in general, non-monogamous breeding across all species is the most common.
Didn’t even need the whole sentence, just the word before those… “Across all species”.
So just do what’s commonest because it’s commonest and no other reason?
100%. Transitioning from making all decisions for your kids to becoming a trusted advisor is something you need to do intentionally over time. Let your kids make low impact decisions when they’re young. Offer guidance as needed, not all the time. Simple examples include what to have for a meal/snack, where to go for a play date, etc.
You’re not a bad person, but neither is she?
IMHO, If they’re caring, respectful and fully aware of the situation who am I to judge.
Keep in mind… most other teens would have ended up doing exactly that, but without telling either guy nor you.
I think that’s quite mature and level-headed of her to have been upfront about this actually. 🤷♂️Nah i get it. If she was a full adult and poly relationships work for her, then great. But she’s 17. 17 year olds are absolute fucking idiots, especially 17 year old boys. I give it a 100% chance that this poly relationship crashes and burns and fails dramatically. I mean 99.9999% of normal monogamous teenage relationships end in dramatic failure. Imagine what this one will do :+).
I obviously don’t know these people but I wouldn’t be surprised if one or both weren’t 100% on board, but think it’s worth it to date her. If that’s true, it’ll explode sooner or later. If they’re all completely content, then fuck it. Weirder situations have happened.
If I were op I’d probably ask if she’s sure they are cool with it and not hoping for monogamy later down the road to save her the pain of losing one or more close friends, but teenage boys aren’t exactly known for expressing their feelings.
Is it a polyamorous relationship? They didn’t say the guys had anything to do with each other, and doesn’t polymory involve everyone involved being, like, in a relationship all together?
Dating multiple people are the same time is just… dating, isn’t it? Hell, I’m older now, and married, but through my 20s, everyone was dating everyone, basically. Yes, occasionally there were times when a state of exclusivity was assumed by ask parties, but most of the time it was just a free-for-all. Hang out occasionally, maybe hook up; isn’t that dating?
I’m not very knowledgeable about polyamory, so it’s an honest question.
Poly can be any relationship structure besides monogamy. The three can all be in it together or they can both be seeing the same person but not be involved otherwise. As long as everyone knows about each other.
Is it poly if two are identical twins who secretly take turns and the third thinks they’re with one person?
I saw it in a movie:
It is 100% a poly relationship. She literally said the guys don’t mind sharing. Doesn’t matter if all 3 of them are together at once. She is still in an open poly relationship. That’s very clear.
doesn’t polymory involve everyone involved being, like, in a relationship all together?
No, it most definitely isn’t. That’s the least common and likely form.
It can work if they want it to, I’ve been in a poly relationship with both of my highschool sweethearts for 20 years now.
You’re the exception to the rule.
I don’t feel very exceptional, folks with polyamorous attachment styles are a lot less uncommon than most people think.
Okay but regardless of relationship style preferences, carrying over high school relationships far into adulthood is extremely rare. I only know 1 or 2 that married their high school sweatheart. It’s rare in modern times and I don’t think you can argue in good faith that it’s not.
That’s the thing, it might be rare but it’s still common enough that it’s existence isn’t really exceptional.
Trans people aren’t the norm, but any “normal” group of 200 people has 3 trans folks in it.
Likewise, most people aren’t polyamorous and few polyamorous relationships are stable on the timescale of decades, but there are enough people that the statistical likelihood of a 50-year-old polycule existing approaches 100%.
I don’t understand what you’re arguing here. Rare does not mean “never.” It means rare. In an infinite universe even a 0.00000000000000000001% chance of life still means it will occur an infinite number of times.
If you were to bet money on the chance that OP’s daughter is still with both those partners at age 35, would you bet on it? I sure as hell wouldn’t. I don’t like losing money. 1-2% odds are pretty fucking terrible (using your 3 in 200 example.)
My point is that it really isn’t rare enough for an example to be exceptional.
The lottery’s odds might be hundreds of thousands or even millions to one, but someone is still going to win it. What would be exceptional would be a year when nobody wins a the lottery.
1-2% odds are a lot higher than lottery odds. If someone offered me anything close to 50-1 on that bet then I’d absolutely take it.
You don’t need to tell us you fixed spelling
Weird comment on your part but I’ll explain. Think of it this way:
If you see someone edited a comment, that means that comment could have literally said anything before the edit. Explaining what the edit was helps give an assurance that it didn’t say something wildly different prior to the edit.
I.e. i could have said something positive and gotten upvotes, but then edited it to say “OP’s daughter is a whore.” That’s a mean and ridiculous comment but it would have looked like people upvoted it (at least until it gets downvoted.)
I am familiar with this anachronistic practice, however it’s never actually been helpful, unless you decide to trust a person you already started to distrust because they basically wrote at the end “trust me bro”. We can let that one go.
Your responses are extremely strange and the downvotes you are receiving reflect that.
Cool. Enjoy your 2004 reddit practice… ?
Reddit wasn’t launched till 2005 ;)
lol alright
Hold on, isn’t your perspective self defeating? The obvious reality of this relationship is that it is experimental in nature. If they’re informed of that going in then making mistakes is the best thing they could all be doing right now at this age where there are still fail-safes. Is it weird insofar as not being a norm that op is used to? Absolutely. Is it good for all of them to get this out of their systems and/or learn what their relationship types and preferences are? Also absolutely. Teenagers are gonna fool around. It’s what they do. The easiest thing for you to do is put aside your differences and respect their autonomy so that they can make their own mistakes while you still have THEIR respect.
Hope this helps, op. Being a parent will never be easy.
I have no idea what you mean by my comment being self defeating.
I’m not saying OP should tell his daughter tlnot to do this. I’m merely stating that it’s almost guaranteed that it’s going to end in broken hearts and tears, for at least 1 of the members. L, given that they’re 17 and most normal relationships at that age fail (which is part of the learning experience yes.)
Funnily enough, in the 50’s and 60’s - parents were often more concerned with their kiddos “going steady” and preferred them to date around.
Polyamory is definitely dicey without a lot of emotional maturity (tbh I don’t think most adults could handle it), but also teenage dating drama is silly. As long as she’s safe and happy, you should probably just be okay with it.
There are a lot of discussions about polyamory which is all valid. That usually means for more serious relationships. However, I would like to point out that casually dating multiple people is very common and has been for a while. Especially early in a relationship this was always a thing. There have been multiple names over time about this “going steady”, “exclusive”, “boyfriend / girlfriend”, “pinning” etc. which has gone back decades.
If you look there was a lot of parents of teens from the 50s complaining that their son/daughter was only dating a single woman/guy. So take that into account
Seriously, look what tinder and bumble did to us 10 years ago. After my divorce I dated multiple women, sometimes at the same time, I was rediscovering myself. It’s normal, as long as you’re not taking advantage of someone else.
Exactly. Dating apps just digitally what people used to do in meat space. Casual dating has always been common and there has always been a point that it becomes “Exclusive” or monogamous.
Its better and healthy than being serial monogamy where you jump from serious commitment to serious commitment.
thanks I never want to hear real life described as “meat space” ever again
Lmao
You’re not a bad person for feeling whatever you’re feeling. It’s your actions that count.
I can forsee some potential issues with it but the worst that is likely to happen is heartbreak. And at that age it’s to be expected from just one boyfriend anyway.
She is almost an adult. Offer advice but at some point she will have to learn to live with the consequences of her actions.
I’m seeing a lot of comments telling you how to feel, to “be okay with it,” which I think is lame. Feelings aren’t something to be controlled, only understood and maybe channeled toward something. When a couple of my good friends began a polyamorous relationship, it really weirded me out, but eventually I came to accept that it worked for them, even though it would not work for me.
My advice is to first understand why you don’t like it. Give it some personal thought, then do some reading on what polyamory is and how it can or cannot work to compare and contrast with the thoughts you had going into the situation. In the process, you will not only gain better ways of understanding and expressing your own feelings and concerns, you’ll also have learned useful advice and guidelines to share with your daughter.
Then sit down with your daughter and share your more refined understanding of your feelings and how they lead to your approval/disapproval of her polyamory and share the guidelines you found to keep such a relationship healthy should she decide to pursue it. I think the middlingly fortunate reality is that she is reaching an age where she will do what she wants, whether it is behind or in front of your back. At least she’ll know that you tried to understand.
i really like your comment. thank you for sharing! not only does it handle coming into terms but also being open to your daughter about what you feel about them.
channeled toward something. it really weirded me out, but eventually I came to accept
This is control
Maybe it depends on how you define the two terms, but I disagree, or at least what you’re saying wasn’t my intent. I think understanding emotions is the primary way to deal with them, but I added the bit about channeling it because sometimes understanding isn’t enough and something more needs to be done. In my mind controlling an emotion means exerting willpower to push down or replace an emotion that arises, while channeling entails a greater degree of acceptance of the emotion and then purposefully putting it toward something productive.
In the context of this scenario, demanding acceptance when the present emotion is probably some mix of disgust, confusion, and fear summed up as “I don’t like it” is a form of emotional control that isn’t healthy. After understanding what emotions are in the mix and (hopefully) why those emotions are present, there are productive and healthy ways to deal with them without trying to force them to change. Confusion has the most obvious way to “channel” it by researching polyamory to be less confused. You may say that that’s not really channeling, and I agree that it can be a vague term, but without that confusion (or by rejecting it) I doubt there would be curiosity to learn, which would hamper a healthy response. I feel pretty deep in the weeds at this point, but I hope that clarifies what I’m trying to say a little.
Basically, to use definitions from Merriam-Webster, to control is to “to exercise restraining or directing influence over” emotions, while to channel is to “to convey or direct [emotions] into or through a channel” toward something productive. The first isn’t a healthy coping mechanism in the long run, the second is if done right.
I mean, you still control your feelings when you first understand your emotions and then decide how to handle them. Accepting your emotions and acting contrary to what you feel or channeling your feelings somewhere is control.
Pushing down one’s emotions is unhealthy but to control them is good.
Yes, but given the context clue of “I’m seeing a lot of comments telling you how to feel, to “be okay with it,” which I think is lame,” which do you think I meant?
Only a problem if she’s lying to the guys, telling them that they’re exclusive in some way.
Casually dating more than one person isn’t a big deal as long as people are honest about it if it comes up in a conversation and isn’t a problem for everyone involved.
I don’t like the idea of polyamory. It feels wrong to me. But when it’s consenting adults (or parties of mutual age in teens), there’s no argument against it.
That’s a big problem with people: not being able to reconcile their feelings with rationality. My feelings are irrelevant to how other people conduct their lives when it doesn’t affect anyone else. I think that’s a key component in having an open mind: to challenge your own feelings, to say, “I don’t like it, and that feeling is objectively wrong. I need to actively check my behavior so I don’t impose that feeling on others.”
It’s fine to have those feelings and good to acknowledge them, but you still have to think it all the way through.
Not to throw shade at any reception to my coming comment but, in my experience, the folks taking part in polyamory are usually the types of people who can’t handle it
In the late 80 and 90s my mom bitched me and my friends out for “hopping from fake monogamy over and over again” because we didn’t date around. We tried to explain that STDs meant that “going steady” was the only dating status available at the time.
Honestly, with the current economy, 3+ adults to a household just makes sense. Isn’t that sad? As long as everyone is informed, your daughter is still finding out what she wants from life don’t make it more complicated by forcing your views on her too.
Polyamory is a bit like gender identity or sexual orientation. Some people (like me) are just not wired for full-time monogamous nesting relationships in the same way that a straight person isn’t likely to feel sexual attraction to a member of the same sex. Consider how you might feel if your daughter came out as gay, or non-binary. Would your reaction be different?
She’s still growing and developing. I think one of the biggest changes between our generation (X, Millenial, maybe older end of Z) and the younger generation is that there isn’t this fear or stigma about trying out alternative lifestyles. It doesn’t mean that they are inherently more or less likely to be queer or non-monogamous, it means they are more free to try these identities on and see if they fit with a reduced risk of being socially ostracized.
It’s very possible that your daughter is just trying this out. Completely independent of your reaction, it is completely feasible that she determines that she (or her partner(s)) figure out that it is not a good fit on her/their own. Regardless of that outcome, your behavior around this will affect your relationship with her. You can be uncomfortable, you can even communicate to her that you are uncomfortable, as long as you still give her space to explore, and I think she will continue to confide in you and trust you with this kind of access into her life as she matures into an adult.
For what it’s worth, I think most people assume monogamy is a default, but I believe it should be a conscious choice. It is absolutely the best choice for MOST people, but I think we would all be happier if we navigated into our relationship styles based on informed decisions, rather than societal expectations.
You’re not bad for feeling any particular way. That is your intuition warning you of possible danger.
How you react to those feelings determines good/bad.
It’s perfectly fine to not like it and as long as you don’t force your view on your daughter, you are not a bad person.
But you sure as hell are a bad person if you don’t accept your daughters stance. Because as long as it is known to and accepted by all participants, it’s nobodies business but theirs. Nobody gets hurt by it? Nobody should interfere.
She’s almost an adult. Almost.
I understand your discomfort, but also she’s going to be making decisions for herself for the rest of her life. Offer supportive guidance. Ask clarifying questions without judgement.
Is she simply dating multiple people, or is she in multiple committed relationships? Do the guys know that she is seeing both, and do either of them expect her to pick one (or neither) eventually? Are they sexually active? As a parent, that last question can be extremely uncomfortable, but it’s a big clue to the nature of the situation.
I would advise that these relationships are dicey. It’s an unbalanced equation. What are they sharing? Her time? Her affection? Her body? Who decides how she is divided up? Does she have the power in the relationship or is she a thing they are passing around? Why are they OK with having half a relationship? Jealousy is a sneaky demon, and the things people say often don’t match the things people feel.
Polyamory can work in adult relationships if everyone is honest about what they want. Teens in relationships can sometimes struggle to advocate for themselves and might tolerate a lot more abuse before they speak up. If she feels like you are judging her for her choices, she may go even further to hide or suppress her feelings from you.
Make sure she understands that you are in her corner, and no topic is off limits. It might be equally uncomfortable for her to discuss it with you, but this is a situation worth monitoring closely. Her relationships should make her feel good about herself, and learning to be in a relationship is learning to balance your needs with the needs of another person. Is she being selfish or callous towards their feelings? Is she creating drama or seeking attention? Does the tension stoke her ego? Those would all be perfectly normal childish traits, and unhealthy attitudes to carry into adulthood.
This can be an important life lesson for her, but check in to make sure she’s learning something that will help her in the long run.
I don’t really see a problem with casual dating. She’s not committing to these people or lying about being committed. Alternatively, polyamory is a thing and many people live happily and fulfilled in that. None of these things are, in and of themselves, really problematic.
3 is where I draw a line, 4 a rectangle, 5 a pentagram of sorts, but if she reaches 6 the most stable structure known to man, then that’s to be celebrated.
Now because man is 5 (cos man is 5), and the devil is 6 (and the devil is 6, devil is 6), and when the devil is 6, then God is 7, then God is 7.
This coincides with the level of permissions you should be giving her. A mode of 555 means you approve of her relationships, one of 666 means you and others approve, and 777 means that she is blessed under God and all.
After that, make sure you can read and write to her. Then finally execute her.
I hope this helped.
3 is a triangle; a love triangle. 2 is a line is you’re a religious but and don’t believe in sex before marriage. 1 is a point, of contention, if you’re a religious fanatic and don’t believe in masturbation.
You’re absolutely right about penta-amorous relationships.
OP to the boyfriends: If you’re 555 then I’m 666.
Hexagons are bestagons
The best you can hope for is that your daughter & her friends don’t get killed by ten million pounds of sludge from New York and New Jersey.
